Posts by Cold Steel

7

JW view of apostates is of human origin

by venus in

god doesn’t take action against a person who has long history of faithfulness when he fails for the first time.

for example, satan is freely permitted to move in heaven and on earth even after many many sins he keeps on practicing.

israel as a nation was not rejected at the first instance of their disobedience.

Cold Steel

Venus » Saul did not extend his waiting (waited for seven days) for Samuel indefinitely, but went ahead and made the sacrifice himself. This good-intentioned, extremely unselfish act of Saul was judged as disobedient by Samuel and declared his judgment: “Jehovah will choose another person to be king over Israel.” (1 Samuel 13:14) What else is needed to turn a good person into bad?

With Saul, this was a part of his arrogance. He assumed because he was king of Israel that he also had the priestly authority to offer sacrifices. It was for his arrogance and his tendency to second guess the Lord. Just as he did a short time later in sparing Agag and the livestock of the Amalekites, which showed he didn't learn a thing from his earlier disobedience.

Just as when Aaron's sons thought to use "strange fire" in their offerings, it was a contempt for the word of God. Based on the language used in 1 Samuel 13, we know that Saul did not obey the clear commandments of the Lord. Nowhere had Saul been ordained to the office of priest, nor was he of the necessary tribe to receive that office. This is one reason the Protestant reformers denied the priesthood authority of the Roman Catholic Church. Constantine may have been the emperor of Rome and the most powerful ruling authority of his time, but he lacked the authority of a single elder or bishop. It's also the reason the Pope excommunicated the bishops and King Henry VIII because he, being king, did not hold ecclesiastical authority. (Yes, it was an irony, but such is history.)

In short, there was no reason to think that Saul had any right, despite his intentions, to proceed with the sacrifice. If he grew tired of waiting for Samuel, why didn't he command his own Levitical priests to offer the sacrifices? Whatever made him think that he, lacking the priesthood, could offer them up? I suspect the priests followed Samuel's orders, not Saul's, but remember Uzzah, who reached out to steady the Ark. They had not secured the Ark as the Lord had required and when the oxen stumbled, Uzzah, lacking authority, attempted to steady it.

Saul knew these stories as well as we do and he knew it was a grievous sin to take authority that had not been given him. This is why Samuel became furious on both this occasion and the one with Agag. In our day we're trained to look at motivation when deciding what's right and wrong. But in Samuel's day, they took things like this far more seriously.

Having said that, the Governing Body have no authority, either. They are part of a manmade church with manmade policies that belie the merciful nature of God. Had Saul acted in good faith and not known the seriousness of what he'd done, the Lord would have been unjustified in his actions. The practice of shunning and disciplining church members is a policy that they are unauthorized to make.

45

So, is God a rapist!?

by stuckinarut2 in

ok, i apologise in advance if this seems irreverent to those who believe in god.. but, the bible says that god (jehovah) impregnated mary.

without her consent.

so that would seem to be rape...right?.

Cold Steel

Actually, Jesus wasn't born on December 25. That was taken from the Roman Feast of Saturn. Also, the Bible never specifically prophesies that the Messiah would be born of a virgin; however, the New Testament strongly suggests she was a virgin and that she consented to being the mother.

12

Facing My Mortality And Becoming A Donor

by pale.emperor in

this thread is quite morbid so i apologize in advance.. a few days ago i was having a conversation with my girlfriend in which she mentioned in passing that she's signed up to donate her organs after her death.

i was quite surprised because she mentioned it like it was no big deal.

i asked her which organs.

Cold Steel

Think of all the people who die and are buried, and organs that could have gone to benefit the lives of others end up rotting in the ground. My wife and I are both donors, and it's on our driver's licenses. It's important that you carry a card or other indicator so your organs can be expeditiously secured and stored. Anything else can be cremated, put in a jar and disposed of.

A woman friend of mine, an evangelical, told me, "Isn't being cremated show a lack of faith in the resurrection?"

"No," I replied, "actually it shows even greater faith in the resurrection. If God can put me back together after all that, then I'll be putting Him to the test."

It's regrettable that religious dogma often results in the waste of such organs. Does the "Truth" allow for non-blood donations to be made at the time of death? Having worked at the National Institutes of Health, I've gained a sense of my own mortality. I've also seen the benefits of bone marrow transplants in people whose lives were saved by the process. I've often wondered what the JW position is on such transplants. Donors have told me that the process is completely manageable as long as the donor takes it easy after the procedure. The one man I met who had a bad time afterwards felt so good he did some yard work. Two days later he was hospitalized, but he was so happy to have saved a life he told me he would do it again in a heartbeat. I've been on the list for years and haven't been compatible with anyone, but I know the value of being a donor. Parents of a child who needs a transplant, spouses and other family members -- the benefits of this procedure are enormous and highly gratifying. To pass a sentence of death on people because of someone's gross (mis)-interpretation of an Old Testament passage is outrageous.

Whether you give your body to science or become a bone marrow donor and/or donate blood on a regular basis, your act can save lives. Men often produce too much iron and this can cause heart and other problems. By giving blood on a regular basis, you can reduce the iron in your body by reducing the amount of blood. It benefits others and it benefits you. How can it possibly be bad?

28

If You Question The Governing Body, You're Like Korah

by pale.emperor in

anyone who questions the governing bodys authority is labelled as an apostate and almost always they bring up the story of korah and his revolt against moses.. watchtower august 1st, 2002, the article loyally submit to godly authority paragraphs 8-15.. https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2002563.

in not so subtle hint, the gb likens themselves to moses, and those who disagree with the gb are korah.. paragraph 15 is actually quite damaging to the gb's argument though:.

it was so unnecessary for all those people to lose their lives.

Cold Steel

The thing about Korah is that after the ground opened up and swallowed him and the other rebels, the people blamed Moses and Aaron!

Moses was chosen by the Lord and had many witnesses of his power, according to the story. Also, seventy of the elders of Israel were permitted to see God and dine in his presence. Even to this day, the peaks of Sinai (Jebal Al Lawz) are blackened by fire.

The Governing Body has not seen God, nor have they seen an angel or angels, nor have they been commanded to do anything. They have appointed themselves as leaders in a manmade religion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7NgmKl3Cq4

89

Do you believe in god?

by freakyAL in

i used to be a staunch believer in god.

maybe its technology and science advancing so much thats got me doubting idk.

do you believe in god?

Cold Steel

Cofty » If you are defining "god" as the creator of earth then he murdered a quarter of a million men, women and children in the 2004 Asian tsunami. He is a moral monster.

How do you define murder? And why would God be a "moral monster" for not stopping a tsunami? All people die, regardless of whether they're saints or sinners, good or evil. Christianity has never promised that man could escape death, pain and heartbreak. It does, however, argue that there is purpose in all things, even if you can't see it at the moment. You blame God because He could have prevented it and didn't. Or, that he may have triggered it Himself.

Of course one might ask what what responsibility God has to prevent disasters. None that I know of. In fact, He warned us of what was coming.

Jesus: And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. (Matthew 24)

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Ibid.)

You blame God for not stopping the pain and suffering of mankind without knowing why we must endure it. Peter writes, "Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator." (1 Peter 4:19)

Even prophets are often put to the sword for their beliefs, having no promise of their lives once their ministry is finished. All men must die and God has never promised anyone their rewards in this life. If there is a God, one must know what His purposes are; also, why we're here and what the future holds. Again, if there is a God, and He's taking an interest in us, what should we expect of Him? You argue that if God brings death to man, or even allows it to come, then He's a "moral monster" for not donning a cape and coming to our rescue! But that's not what He's promised us.

What has He promised? First, He's promised all men, both the just and the unjust, a deliverance from death. That is through the atonement. As an atheist, you are completely free to say you don't believe in God and that such belief is delusional. That's your religion. But to accuse God of murder and say He is guilty of taking life when He, in fact, promises us deliverance from death, isn't accurate. First, if there is a God, He is the arbiter of what is murder and what is not murder. And two, He is the One who created the moral laws that condemn it; thus, you would have to be in a position of judgment to render that judgment. The basis of your charges rest on 1) the premise that God exists; 2) that He wantonly violated His own law by either creating or allowing the tsunami to happen; and 3) that if guilty, judgment ought to be unbelief on the part of the aggrieved (that is, the human race).

If God does not exist, the people who perished ceased to exist when the waves took their lives. Thus, no one committed murder. If God does exist and He is the God of the Bible, then those people did not cease to exist, but are as alive as they were in life; only without their bodies (which will be restored later). Thus in either case, God is not guilty of anything, neither can He be judged, for all things are subject unto Him.

Finally, according to Christian theology, nothing that happens to us on Earth is of any lasting harm. People don't go through eternity emotionally scarred. In fact, in the vast majority of cases, we humans are better off after our sojourns here. But to get there from here is, of necessity, a painful process -- one you don't presently understand. Thus it is, "that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (Philippians 2)

If I'm right, then your knee also shall one day bend. On the other hand, if I'm wrong, neither one of us will ever know because we'll be dead.

33

The Second Coming of Christ

by maccauk in

the second coming of christ was in the 1st century at the destruction of jerusalem the temple the law and the old covenants.

so the new eternal covenant came into force in which people of every tribe tongue and naation would enter into.

the new jerusalem not built by human hands nor with bricks and mortar its spiritual cannot be seen but people will stream to it the sin issue is done there is no more judgment for those in christ .

Cold Steel

David_Jay » The Romans had no hatred of the Temple and tried to save it. It caught fire in the siege by mistake.

True. One account (Josephus?) reports that fighters on both sides ceased hostilities and worked together in an ineffectual attempt to put out the flames. Titus had given strict orders to not to burn the temple. No one knows who threw the firebrand into the temple that was responsible for its destruction.

15

Are any of the 1st Cnetury Apostles Still Alive Today ?

by maccauk in

the second coming was in the 1st century all things have been fulfilled because jesus told them some would still be alive when he returned.

.

Cold Steel

The apostle John was said by many to have been translated by the Lord, as Enoch and Elijah were:

Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee? Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.
John 20:20-24

People who are translated don't skip the dying process; it just happens that they are changed from flesh and bone to a translated state, then are resurrected in the twinkling of an eye.

If true, then yes, John remained. We know that Jesus died in 33 A.D., yet John's Apocalypse was written circa 100 A.D. There was a legend that the Romans tried to kill him by dropping him into a vat of boiling oil, but that he emerged from it unharmed. He was then exiled to the island of Patmos, where he lived many years before vanishing shortly after the Apocalypse was written.

It's rumored that he's now living in Brooklyn under an assumed name and is a member of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. He's in charge of establishing new dates for Armageddon and subsequent articles for why the dates didn't pan out.

8

Anyone interested in sending your name to Mars.

by James Mixon in

jw
friends

nasa will upload the registered names to a dime-size chip and secure it to the insight lander deck, the last day to submit your name nov. 1st 2017.. enjoythesilence.today/2017/10/03/nasa-offers-program-send-your-name-mars/.

yes i will send in my name and when i get to paradise i can tell those that are resurrected, you see that planet there my name is up there.i know it's hard to believe but our buddy adam didn't have a clue what was out there,the poor guy didn't realize there was a large village two miles down the road.. ok maybe i won't make it to paradise but a guy can dream crazy thoughts.....but seriously you can send your name to mars..

Cold Steel

How can one's name be read? If a space guy comes along and says, "Hey, look, someone dropped a dime. Now what's a dime doing way out here...oh wait, it's not a dime, it's a microchip. Anyone know how to tell what's on this?"

"Hmmm...that is old. I have an ancient piece of Earth hardware back in my office but this thing is far too tiny. Nah...my reader is something called Betamax. It was supposed to be better than VHS."

"What's VHS?"

"It was before DVDs"

"What's a DVD?"

"It's what this thing should have been written on."

16

Just overheard this after meeting . . .

by neat blue dog in

the annual meeting just finished, and here's a conversation i overheard from two gushing jws:.

sister:.

they said we're so close!.

Cold Steel

What makes them think the Governing Body would know? This isn't just a rhetorical question, the GB has made it quite clear that they are not inspired, nor do they receive revelation in our day. They couldn't be clearer as to what this means -- it means that they have no more clue than anyone else.

Blind guides leading the blind....

BTW, when it does come, how will it come? Let's say it happens tomorrow. What kind of day will it be? I still don't know what JWs expect. A storm? Earthquake? Fire from heaven?

37

Do They Still do Door-to-Door as Much as Before?

by cofty in

since the advent of the trolleys do the majority of jws still go door to door like we used to?.

do they still have meetings for field service on sat mornings and sun afternoons where most head off to the local territory while one or two go to do trolley work or has the importance of door to door work reduced?.

with the reduction of printing wts and awakes what will they offer at the doors?.

Cold Steel

They still go door-to-door, but they no longer push for personal Bible studies. The time was, they'd ask you if you wanted them to come back, then they'd tell you about their Bible study program and actively push it. Now, they come to our neighborhood, bail out of their cars and an hour later they meet back, pile in the cars and hit a Denny's. When we answer the door, they cram some magazines into our hands and are gone.

Back in the 70s they were more aggressive and they knew their Bibles much more than they do now. They're just more interested in getting to the restaurant nowdays.